Getting set
up with Health and Safety here in Spain has not been easy. One of the requirements is that each and every
batch that is to be sold has to be tested by a lab for certain parameters… two
of those parameters are free lye and pH.
Ever had your soap tested officially by a lab? I bet you would be surprised by the
results. The tonge test is not very accurate…
So the
pharmacist that I work with (another health and safety requirement here) is
doing some pH experimenting with me. We
are noticing that the pH definitely comes down with time.
We are
working with the paper testers and phenolphthalein. The phenalphthalein basically tells us if the
pH is under or over 8. Under 8 and it
comes clear. Over 8 and it begins to get
pink, bright pink still being up there around 10. But under 8 and over 10 cannot be detected easily
with phenalphthalein. The paper strips
do not seem to be very accurate as they are telling me the pH in the photos
looks to be around 7 or 8, and the Phen. Tells me it is up near 10!
I have
decided to get a more accurate pH (probably a digital one) tester very soon!
I would be
interested in hearing your experiences with pH, what pH level is your handmade
soap usually at and if you do anything to attempt to bring it down.
Happy
soaping!!
Xo
Jen
23 comments:
EVERY single batch has to be tested? So much for making small batches for the commercial market then. Is the testing expensive Jen?
Interesting that you say that the PH comes down with time. I've always wondered at the 4-6 week cure time. Should you wait four weeks or six and what's the difference in the soap between that time?
Tanya, EVERY batch needs to be tested. Yes, small batches are not profitable, they are actually prohibitive.... so the small ones are experiments... I think the longer a soap waits, the better it is. I don't think there is a lot of difference between 4 and 6 weeks but there seems to be quite a difference between 1 month and 6 months... in hardness and all around. What are your experiences? xo Jen
I don't see much difference during 4-6 weeks either and think it must just be for allowing a little more water to evaporate from the bars.
I've always wondered why some makers choose to cure for months though. It does make the bars harder but I've shied away from longer than six weeks myself because I don't want the essential oils to evaporate out of the bars along with the water. I didn't realise that the PH dropped all that much more with time so it makes sense now. Thanks for the info :)
That is very interesting. I find that I like my soaps a lot better after a few months, but after about a year most of them start to look "old". So my preference it for about 5-12 months. I used to test my soaps for pH, but not any more. I found that ageing drastically reduces the pH.iechta
From a chemist to a fellow soap maker, I'd say get the digital tester with set buffers to check your pH accurately. Those paper things only work well in a solution, not so well with soap that just forms a suspension. Also, the pH goes down with time, the saponification process takes time to finish (water evaporation from the soap helps it to get there, hence curing time important) and as the last molecules of lye react toe pH goes sloooooowly down.
I sometimes wonder how the generations before us ever lived, without all the regulations of today, LOL. I'm sorry, but I think that there are far more important matters for governments to regulate. Like homelessness, and medical wellness for all there citizens.
Hi Jen,now you made me curious to check Ph value of my old soaps. I occasionally do Ph testing with stripes and the results are always more or less alike, it goes around 9-10 after 3-4 weeks of curing. I recently made a 100% citrus juice soap (i admit, with majority of tangerines juice) and it didn't affect the Ph of soap.
If you want,I will send you an invitation for my private blog,where I write about troubles in soapmaking and this batch was illustrated with photos of Ph stripes. Your mail is preferable to be gmail and I hope I will manage sending you the invitation from my phone (as I've been away from home).
And,by the way,I still haven't,but surely will soon do the lab testing.
Wow Jen, in the US we have tons of requirements for labeling of so many "beauty" products but simple soap, that made with lye and oil has very basic rules to meet. No pH requirements. Like so many of the others I think my soap hits its prime at 2 months but some gels so well I use it myself in the first week. Would love to know how much the testing costs you
Tanya, Thanks for your comments... ahhh the essential oils... always a challenge. I find they stay much better if stored in a dark area. xoxo Jen
Ambra, I agree with you. I like a soap between 5 and 12 months as well. They usually sell before then, but we are using an oldie now that is about 1 and a half years old and we love it. Occasionally a soap will get some spots with age, but only if the SF is too high and there is a high percentage of oils that spoil (avocado, grape seed, rose hip, almond). xoxoxo Jen
Suvi, Thank you SO MUCH for the info. So nice to get info from a chemist!!! xo Jen
Connie, Totally totally agree... thank you for your comment. xo Jen
Diva, Thank you for sharing your experiences! I would be happy to get an invitation to your private blog. Do not have a gmail address. Can it work with yahoo? naturalmentemediterraneo@yahoo.com
xo
jen
Donna, The regulations here are incredible for soap making and making skin care products. I feel like its even heavier that food!! Send me an email and I will respond with the costs... xoxoxo Jen
I sent it,but I think with other address domains than gmail,you will have access limited to one month,or so. Honestly,I didn't even know you could have a blog on blogger without having a gmail e-mail address.
Btw, what results do you usually get with lab testing regarding Ph values. Do they much vary from your home testing?
Good subject, I like it!
From my experience I can say this:
1.Everything starts right from the Recipe.
2.The drying period is determined for a good PH(all my soaps,BUT ALL,have a PH=7).
3.For each batch of soap, I made a list and I write the following:date of manufacture,initial weight(for each piece of soap),final weight(after 4 weeks) and the pH.
In this way I managed to select a few good recipes(in 3 years of experience and aprox.300 recipes)with a very very good Ph(because 7 is a very good one).
4.In reality,a complete saponification is when the soap stop to weight loss(the weight remains constant).This means that all the water has evaporated,the caustic soda is completely disappeared(because it works only with water).
In my humble opinion everything starts with the initial recipe conception(the amount of water, of soda, etc.).
Sure there are more elements that influence the finality of a good handmade soap(the drying conditions,the quality components, etc.).
Maybe I was I little help there.
I wish you a wonderful Sunday Day!
Much Love,
Claudia.
Diva, Thank you so much for the invitation!! I have checked out your post and it is fascinating. I also made soap with whole citrus and it didn't effect the pH much. I think the best thing for pH is curing time... xoxoxo Jen
Claudia,(Alegria Mediterranea), Very interesting your comment! And fascinating that you are able to achieve a pH or 7 in a cold process soap... after how many weeks of curing? How are you testing? Is it with an exterior lab? Thanks for your comment! xo Jen
Isn´t the high PH precisely what gives the soap its long shelf life? Presenting an inhospitable environment for bacterial growth.
What´s your PH target?
Coco, Thanks for your comment. I didn't know that but you may be right. My soaps usually have a pH around 9-10, when tested at the lab but it but it can look as low as 7 - 8. I don't trust the strips. The pH in my salt soap is usually lower 8 - 9. Some interesting links about pH in handmade soap:
http://goatmilkstuff.com/Goat-Milk-Soap-pH.html
http://www.millersoap.com/phtome.html
http://www.soap-body-and-spa.com/Cold-Process-Soap-Troubleshooting.html
http://www.chagrinvalleysoapandsalve.com/idascorner/soappH.aspx
http://vermontsoap.com/about-our-soap/ph-soap-and-skin/
I think there is a lot of confusion about pH in soap out there but I am satisfied with pH between 9-10.
What about you?
xo Jen
....dying to know answers!
Hi Jen,
1.I have already twwo years working with this pH paper test and it works very well(I personally test my soaps).
I bought this paper from specialized laboratories (is expensive but worth it)and in addition I have a few years of experience in chemical laboratory(I worked in a chemical laboratory analyzes outside of Spain).
Although my academic preparation is as Marketing specialist,I did 4 rough years of high school in Chemical industries(from here comes all my thoroughness in all these).
2.Both, the soaps dried 3 months up to 1 year(and more)and the soaps dried normaly up to 4-6 weeks,have a pH of 7.
3.My firm belief is that the final pH level is given by the amount of soda and water attending the saponification process.
I believe that experiment permanently in a very rigorous and methodical process(way) is the key into the success.
Thanks for this post, I am eager to exchange ideas, opinions and experiences really interesting(especially in this area).
I wish you a very,very happy week!
Much Love,
Claudia.
Claudia, Thank you for your comment and responses!! xoxox Jen
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